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Rainmaker
02/08/2007, 14:57
This could get interesting (I'm talking about all ISPs, not specifically our beloved ADSL24 :))...

There is a huge gap between advertised broadband speeds and the actual speeds users can achieve, research has shown.

A survey by consumer group Which? found that broadband packages promising speeds of up to 8Mbps (megabits per second) actually achieved far less.

Tests of 300 customers' net connections revealed that the average download speed they were getting was 2.7Mbps.

Which? has called on regulator Ofcom and Trading Standards to launch a fresh investigation into UK broadband.

Misleading ads

The speed tests were prompted by complaints from members of the public, unhappy with the speeds of their broadband connections.

In the last 12 months more internet service providers (ISPs) have offered services, promising speeds of up to 8Mbps.

The Advertising Standards Agency (ASA) has investigated several cases of misleading promotions, most recently asking Bulldog to make it clear in its adverts that speed was dependent on how far away from the exchange people lived.

It ruled that broadband providers could use the words "up to" 8Mbps when describing services as long as customers were likely to get close to those speeds.

The average speed achieved in the Which? trials was 2.7Mbps, with the lowest coming in at under 0.09Mbps, barely at dial-up rates, and the maximum only reaching 6.7Mbps.

"It is shocking that internet service providers can advertise ever-increasing speeds that seem to bear little resemblance to what most people can achieve in reality," said which.co.uk editor Malcolm Coles.

"If it's unlikely that you'll reach the advertised speed it should be made clear up front, so that you know with some certainty what you're buying," he added.

Lack of demand?

Ofcom told the BBC News website that it was monitoring the situation.

"If we get increasing complaints we may look at what more can be done. We are working closely with the ASA and it is very important that consumers know what they are getting and what they are paying for," said an Ofcom spokeswoman.

According to a Which? survey, done in conjunction with the speed tests, only one in 10 of its members thought that a broadband service advertised as up to 8Mbps would actually deliver the top speed.

Tim Johnson from analyst firm Point Topic believes that people are generally resigned to the fact that they are not going to get super-fast broadband any time soon.

"There is currently small demand for 8Mbps and we are in the early days for things that need that kind of bandwidth. The fact is that video generally is not served at those speeds even if you could receive it," he said.

A BT spokesman confirmed that 8Mbps would be a rarity for users.

"Virtually no-one will get it. The laws of physics start applying as soon as it leaves the exchange and you would have to live on top of the exchange to get the full 8 megabits," he said.

BT is currently upgrading its exchanges as part of its 21st Century Network (21CN) programme. It will allow for broadband speeds of up to 24Mbps and will start to be made available from early 2008.

From http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6924866.stm

Interesting... To be fair to both sides, "Up to" does not mean "8 megs", but then if it's "up to 8 meg" you'd expect to get over 2 megs, wouldn't you? Unless you understand attenuation, and the way the system works, you'd be pretty peeved to order an upto 8 meg service and only get a couple of megs for your money.

So basically, broadband providers should now only use the term "up to 8 megs" to a customer who lives close enough to the exchange to actually see almost full speed. Bang go the TV and print adverts then? What are your thoughts?

James
02/08/2007, 15:28
Half of that is rubbish.

Tests of 300 customers' net connections revealed that the average download speed they were getting was 2.7Mbps.
300? That is nowhere near enough lines to get an average. If they tested 300 people ithin 1Km of the exchange the average would be more like 5Mb, so you can't do an average speed survey based on ADSL technology.

The average speed achieved in the Which? trials was 2.7Mbps, with the lowest coming in at under 0.09Mbps, barely at dial-up rates, and the maximum only reaching 6.7Mbps.
That's because the top profile is 7150 Kbps (7.15Mb) and after overheads 6.7Mbps is pretty much top speed. Additionally, they should be testing SYNC rate, not download speed tests, as if a speed test shows a low results that's the ISP's problem - the customer could be on the full 8128 SYNC.

It is shocking that internet service providers can advertise ever-increasing speeds that seem to bear little resemblance to what most people can achieve in reality
So, how else are ISP's meant to advertise it. The statement of 8Mbps isn't strictly true, as due to BT's profile system the max is around 7Mbps, but how else can an ISP advertise it? Most ISP's clearly state that the speed will depend on your distance to the exchange etc.

Virtually no-one will get it. The laws of physics start applying as soon as it leaves the exchange and you would have to live on top of the exchange to get the full 8 megabits
Complete tosh. Lines up to around 1.5 Km can happily sync at the full 8128 (8Mb). I have a line with attenuation of 31, which is just short of 2Km and it connects at 8128. I also have two more lines to this property, on ADSL2+ and achieve around 15Mb.

I wish these companies would do some actual proper research before conducting these type of surveys.

Paul_ADSL24
02/08/2007, 15:53
Quote:
Tests of 300 customers' net connections revealed that the average download speed they were getting was 2.7Mbps.
300? That is nowhere near enough lines to get an average. If they tested 300 people ithin 1Km of the exchange the average would be more like 5Mb, so you can't do an average speed survey based on ADSL technology.


Agreed 300 is not enough. As for average speeds for ADSL you can do them but you need to break it down by sync rate.



Quote:
The average speed achieved in the Which? trials was 2.7Mbps, with the lowest coming in at under 0.09Mbps, barely at dial-up rates, and the maximum only reaching 6.7Mbps.
That's because the top profile is 7150 Kbps (7.15Mb) and after overheads 6.7Mbps is pretty much top speed. Additionally, they should be testing SYNC rate, not download speed tests, as if a speed test shows a low results that's the ISP's problem - the customer could be on the full 8128 SYNC.


I thought that the 8128Kbps referred to ATM cell rate. As each IP frame is wrapped in an ATM cell there is added overhead. Hence the ATM rate is 8128Kbps but the IP rate is 7150Kbps. Each TCP packet is then wrapped in the IP frame hence the ACTUAL transfer rate of 6700Kbps(ish). Again they should be comparing speed to sync rate and not one or the other independently.



Quote:
It is shocking that internet service providers can advertise ever-increasing speeds that seem to bear little resemblance to what most people can achieve in reality
So, how else are ISP's meant to advertise it. The statement of 8Mbps isn't strictly true, as due to BT's profile system the max is around 7Mbps, but how else can an ISP advertise it? Most ISP's clearly state that the speed will depend on your distance to the exchange etc.


Personally I do find the wording misleading but as a headline grabber it works. It is only recently that the major players have been making it clear that this is distance/line dependent



Quote:
Virtually no-one will get it. The laws of physics start applying as soon as it leaves the exchange and you would have to live on top of the exchange to get the full 8 megabits
Complete tosh. Lines up to around 1.5 Km can happily sync at the full 8128 (8Mb). I have a line with attenuation of 31, which is just short of 2Km and it connects at 8128. I also have two more lines to this property, on ADSL2+ and achieve around 15Mb.


Agreed but everyones line quality/age/internal wiring are different so it is near impossible to say who will get what.

hornedrat
02/08/2007, 16:23
When I converted to ADSL Max upon joining up here I knew that there was little chance of getting the full sync rate (I am 1.5km from the exchange but with an attenuation in the 50's the cable goes round the houses so to speak).

I was more bothered about getting a company that told me what my limits are for downloading and throttling of traffic rather then speed. I would rather the ASA took the advertisers of the unlimited (except for FUP) policy and the headline only £9.99 (normal price 14.99) people to task rather then the speed which is correctly advertised as up to not as guarenteed.

Just my 2p's worth

Lwcus
02/08/2007, 16:38
'BT is currently upgrading its exchanges as part of its 21st Century Network (21CN) programme. It will allow for broadband speeds of up to 24Mbps and will start to be made available from early 2008.

I suppose reading this, that when they start doing 24mbps, then we will get only 8mbps on average. :p

James
02/08/2007, 18:31
In general, with ADSL2+ services, the majority of lines will see around or slightly below/above double what they get now.

MagicMalkin
17/08/2007, 09:43
Agreed 300 is not enough. As for average speeds for ADSL you can do them but you need to break it down by sync rate.



I thought that the 8128Kbps referred to ATM cell rate. As each IP frame is wrapped in an ATM cell there is added overhead. Hence the ATM rate is 8128Kbps but the IP rate is 7150Kbps. Each TCP packet is then wrapped in the IP frame hence the ACTUAL transfer rate of 6700Kbps(ish). Again they should be comparing speed to sync rate and not one or the other independently.



Personally I do find the wording misleading but as a headline grabber it works. It is only recently that the major players have been making it clear that this is distance/line dependent



Agreed but everyones line quality/age/internal wiring are different so it is near impossible to say who will get what.

We'll still probably, apparently, get an average of 2.7mbps, as it is 'up to 24mbps' lol

colonelk
17/08/2007, 12:06
In general, with ADSL2+ services, the majority of lines will see around or slightly below/above double what they get now.

My attentuation is around 57 and on Enta (with Hi-Velocity) I'm synching at around 2600. When I first got max it was synching at 3200 and I was getting 2.5Megs useable. Now I'm barely getting 2megs and thats with interleaving on.

What could I get on ADSL2+ and have you got any plans to offer this platform?

I'll be an ADSL MAX customer from the 28th when my line gets migrated. :)

I think our lines are made of cheese around here :rolleyes:

Cheers

Ck

Grenned
17/08/2007, 13:50
At the end of the day, they shouldnt be making the ISPS look back in this case, Its the government and BT who should be looking to improve things.

Interestingly at work we had some links into the USA, and they were saying a company are currently testing an ADSL booster. How true this is im not sure, But the quick explaination i got was basically an Amplifier that plugs into your master socket, boosting the incoming signal and output signal, my first response was balls but the guy says that the guy is trying to get some patents sorted out, ill keep my ear to the ground