View Full Version : Disconnections on Murphx
Morning!
Since my previous posts reporting very slow browsing since the changeover, I have to say it has improved over the last 3/4 days. When it's running smoothly, it's fine, and I'm able to watch videos and You tube etc, so now it's not so much a problem with browsing speed, but with actual connection to the internet. Every day, at least once or twice, it still loses connection, or slows down so much that it seems to have lost connection, and, after waiting to see if it rights itself, which has happened a few times, I have to restart the router.
It was going along fine this morning, then suddenly at about 10.35, I couldn't access any web pages, they were timing out, even though all router lights were on. Since the 10th March, when I moved to Murphx, there have been 67 sessions established, which seems a bit on the high side! Not all these have been down to me restarting the router, sometimes new sessions start during the night when I'm not using it. The longest session has been 30 hours from 20th - 22nd March.
I have a ticket still open from February when I was having problems with slow speeds after changing over to ADSL2+. It was left open to see what happened after moving to Murphx. I sent another message using this ticket last Tuesday, a week ago now, but I've not yet had a reply. I know they're busy but that's a long time to wait. Hopefully, I'll hear from them soon.
Mal
there have been 67 sessions established, which seems a bit on the high side
That indicates something more serious and an issue unrelated to the one in this thread,
most likely related to SNR Margin.
Have you posted your line stats yet, it's worth having a look at them for anything obvious.
Also as you are on adsl2+ what Make & Model of router do you have, as some are better on the adsl2+ side than others.
That indicates something more serious and an issue unrelated to the one in this thread,
most likely related to SNR Margin.
Have you posted your line stats yet, it's worth having a look at them for anything obvious.
Also as you are on adsl2+ what Make & Model of router do you have, as some are better on the adsl2+ side than others.
Hi! By line stats do you mean speed test results? I've posted them previously, here's the last one I did on 21st March.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/756401729.png (http://www.speedtest.net)
The results of the last BT test I did on 21st March at 9.16am are below:
Download speed achieved: 3980 Kbps
DSL connection rate: 5579/1019 Kbps
IP Profile: 4000 Kbps (was 3500 between about 16th-19th March)
BE Classes: 15.95 : 20.53 : 63.52 (SBE:NBE:PBE)
My router is a Belkin F5D7632uk4A. I know these aren't the best of routers, but held off buying a new one until after the changeover, to see how things went. I seemed to be having the same problems as a lot of others on here with very slow browsing, but maybe the connection problems are, as you say, a different issue. The router doesn't give me any SNR stats so all I can say is that it's synching higher (5000-6000 mostly), but I am on ADSL2+ now. I'm also using OpenDNS at the moment, due to recommendations on this thread, and things did seem to improve browsing-wise afterwards.
I don't mind getting a new router if it stabilises my connection, but don't want to spend unnecessarily. I've been looking at the Netgear DG834G wireless router but not sure whether v.4 or v.5 would be the best option.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. :)
Mal
boysteve
23/03/2010, 14:29
malw77
Try this http://192.168.2.1/ADSL_status_main.stm to get line stats
Your complaining about that lol
Download speed achieved during the test was - 397 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 400-1500 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Assured Rate IP profile on your line is - 1500 Kbps
i have the same upload speed as my down!
http://www.speedtest.net/result/758372617.png (http://www.speedtest.net)
http://www.speedtest.net/result/758378312.png (http://www.speedtest.net)
aparently there is nothing that can be done until 10days after your swich over period
By line stats do you mean speed test results?
No needed to look at the SNR margin, Attenuation values etc to see if anything looked amiss, try the url BoySteve posted.
It could be that the router just isn't handling the line conditions well on ADSL2+,
but then there may be a reason why the line conditions aren't good in the first place...
I've been looking at the Netgear DG834G wireless router but not sure whether v.4 or v.5 would be the best
If you do go the Netgear route then get the DG834G v4 as it is broadcom based, the v5 has a conexant based chipset and is no where near as good.
No needed to look at the SNR margin, Attenuation values etc to see if anything looked amiss, try the url BoySteve posted.
It could be that the router just isn't handling the line conditions well on ADSL2+, but then there may be a reason why the line conditions aren't good in the first place...
The router status page tells me nothing about attenuation values or SNR margins, not as far as I can see anyway - here's a screen shot taken a few minutes ago.
Lol - would you believe it - right in the middle of downloading the file, my router internet light went out and connection was lost! I've given it a few minutes to see if it will reconnect, but it hasn't so I'm going to restart the router - again!
Sorry - it won't let me upload the file, says it exceeds my quota, but it's only 40Kb in size and the Manage Attachments page says .jpg files can be 97.7kb. I must be doing something wrong but not sure what!
Here's a ping test I did earlier:
http://www.pingtest.net/result/13214267.png (http://www.pingtest.net)
Mal
You can upload images to a 3rd party host like www.tinypic.com
You can upload images to a 3rd party host like www.tinypic.com
Thanks for that, works a treat!
Here is the status page from my router that I tried to upload earlier.
[Temporarily Removed Image]
I've had to reboot twice this evening in order to access the internet. Browsing speeds are fine in between these periods of having little or no internet access. At my last reboot a few minutes ago web pages were timing out but I could send and receive email. I don't understand why this is happening. Any ideas please?
Mal
The router status page tells me nothing about attenuation values or SNR margins, not as far as I can see anyway
http://192.168.2.1/ADSL_status_main.stm
Logging in to the Belkin 7632 and then entering the above URL should definately bring up the full stats inc SNR margin values, and the following should display the error counts:
http://192.168.2.1/statsatm.html
http://192.168.2.1/ADSL_status_main.stm
Logging in to the Belkin 7632 and then entering the above URL should definately bring up the full stats inc SNR margin values, and the following should display the error counts:
http://192.168.2.1/statsatm.html
Thanks for the info but I'm afraid all I get is a 'HTTP 404 Not Found' error for each of the above URLs. I logged into the router using http://192.168.2.1/ to bring up the Login page and then went into the Status/Home page. I entered the URLs on both the Home page and the Login page, result was the same error message for both. I presume I just enter the URL as normal in the browser? If that's wrong, please let me know.
Very slow tonight with 4 reboots of the router, two by me and two automatic by the router. I've no idea what to do as no reply from ADSL24 to my 8 day old ticket request.
Mal :(:(:(:(:(
http://192.168.2.1/ADSL_status_main.stm
Logging in to the Belkin 7632 and then entering the above URL should definately bring up the full stats inc SNR margin values, and the following should display the error counts:
http://192.168.2.1/statsatm.html
At last, I managed to get the line stats from my Belkin router! The URL is http://192.168.2.1/adsl_status.stm
These are the stats:
Status: Configured / Current
Line status: --- / SHOWTIME
Link Type: --- / Fast Path
Data Rate
Up: 947 Kbps
Down: 5419 Kbps
Operation Data: Up / Down
Noise Margin: 5 dB / 7 dB
Attenuation 0 dB / --- dB
Defect Indication:
[All Indicators under Near End Indicator and Far End Indicator show 0 (Zero)]
Statistics:
Received Cells: 3379
Transmitted Cells: 4080
Can someone tell me what all this means please? :s
Thank you!
Mal
Status: Configured / Current
Line status: --- / SHOWTIME
Link Type: --- / Fast Path
Data Rate
Up: 947 Kbps
Down: 5419 Kbps
Operation Data: Up / Down
Noise Margin: 5 dB / 7 dB
Attenuation 0 dB / --- dB
Defect Indication:
[All Indicators under Near End Indicator and Far End Indicator show 0 (Zero)]
@malw77
Well Fast Path means that your line Interleaving is off, which might be fine depending on the line Attenuation - which is where there's a problem, probably just the router misreporting but it does seem to suggest that the Belkin is having a difficult time handling the adsl2+ line conditions as mentioned before. The downstream SNR margin looks OK at 7dB, but the upstream just looks wrong at 5dB, it would normally be a lot higher than the downstream margin. Would be worth trying another ADSL filter if you've got one in case its gone a bit duff.
But as you were considering getting another router anyway i'd go ahead and get that DG834G v4 or another broadcom based one - which ever is the least cost - and see if it helps with the disconnections.
It never hurts to have a spare router anyway :)
@malw77
Well Fast PathWould be worth trying another ADSL filter if you've got one in case its gone a bit duff.
But as you were considering getting another router anyway i'd go ahead and get that DG834G v4 or another broadcom based one - which ever is the least cost - and see if it helps with the disconnections.
It never hurts to have a spare router anyway :)
@Dae
I've changed filters recently in case that was an issue but it didn't help any. I'll look out for a new router, as you say, it's always handy to have a spare and they don't cost the earth, thank goodness!
At least if ADSL24 do come ever get back to me I can say I've tried everything I can to improve things! Thanks for your help!
Mal
The downstream SNR margin looks OK at 7dB, but the upstream just looks wrong at 5dB, it would normally be a lot higher than the downstream margin.
Sorry but this isn't necessarily true at all. In my case my upstream SNR margin is also lower than my downstream, and with zero problems.
I'm using a DG834GT by the way (which use the Broadcom chipset of course).
Thats right Dave, ever since I went on the 21cn platform my snr margin has been 5 db up and 7 down, had no issues with that until murphx migration......
Sorry but this isn't necessarily true at all. In my case my upstream SNR margin is also lower than my downstream, and with zero problems.
Thats right Dave, ever since I went on the 21cn platform my snr margin has been 5 db up and 7 down, had no issues with that until murphx migration......
I am surprised, as that would make most lines fairly susceptible to drop-outs from any noise on the upstream side as there is less head room between the actual SNR required to maintain sync and the ability of the line to soak up any minor interference without dropping.
But then I just read last night that it is normal for ADSL2+ to actually cause a drop in SNR Margin of 5-6dB, which makes sense really as ADSL2+ attempts to double the frequencies being sent over the pair and that extra capacity has to come from somewhere.
Always good to learn something new ;)
Just wish I could find something more technical on how the frequency doubling is achieved, but there doesn't seem to be much info about.
And I assume the lower SNR Margins must mean that higher attenuation lines are much more prone to disconnections on ADSL2+ than they were on AdslMax, unless the line is near perfect.
Hope everyone on the longer lines with ADSL2+ keep their TFT screens (or rather the CCFL inverters) well away from the router & phoneline :o
I am connected via ADSL1 in fact - although ADSL2+ was equally stable, I can sync slightly higher with ADSL1. Check out my stats in DMT tool:
http://i40.tinypic.com/2vjajj7.png
I am connected via ADSL1 in fact - although ADSL2+ was equally stable
But its not actually ADSLMax, regardless of the signalling protocol in use, it is an ADSL2+ line judging from the upstream sync.
And It's a C&W LLU line rather than a 21CN WBC line by the looks of it.
Some of the higher frequencies (Bins) are dropping to 0dB but I guess that is to be expected with that Attenuation - The first drop at bin 64 can ignored as its the downstream pilot tone.
Regardless I am still surprised that such a high attenuation line is performing so well and not suffering any drop outs. Must be a fairly good line to be that long and not suffer with noise issues.
so if i get a new router it will stop the dozen or so daily disconnections??
heres a snapshot of the last few hours...
04:52:24 (since last boot) xDSL linestate up (downstream: 2499 kbit/s, upstream: 691 kbit/s; output Power Down: 16.5 dBm, Up: 9.5 dBm; line Attenuation Down: 26.0 dB, Up: 14.0 dB; snr Margin Down: 6.5 dB, Up: 8.0 dB)
04:52:03 (since last boot) xDSL linestate down
04:51:46 (since last boot) xDSL linestate down
00:02:00 (since last boot) xDSL linestate up (downstream: 13096 kbit/s, upstream: 1131 kbit/s; output Power Down: 20.0 dBm, Up: 12.0 dBm; line Attenuation Down: 26.0 dB, Up: 14.5 dB; snr Margin Down: 6.5 dB, Up: 7.0 dB)
00:01:38 (since last boot) xDSL linestate down
00:01:21 (since last boot) xDSL linestate down
00:01:08 (since last boot) xDSL linestate up (downstream: 2647 kbit/s, upstream: 763 kbit/s; output Power Down: 16.5 dBm, Up: 9.5 dBm; line Attenuation Down: 26.0 dB, Up: 14.5 dB; snr Margin Down: 6.5 dB, Up: 7.5 dB)
my speed is up and down every day since the murphx switch. was solid as a rock on entanet. although i probably didnt notice because of the throttling.lol. ive got a thomson 585v6 i think. ive been on adsl2+ since the switch too. is it because the 585 isnt man enough for adsl2+??
Have you tried the DMT software: http://www.kitz.co.uk/routers/DMTv7.htm
If that works on your router you may be able to tweak your downstream SNR margin upwards to reduce or eliminate disconnections.
no not heard of it. dont really know what the SNR margin should be though.lol. should it be higher than 6.5?
boysteve
27/03/2010, 17:29
djb1203 get routerstats and monitor your connection
http://www.vwlowen.co.uk/internet/files.htm#download
6.5 should be fine,you have a problem somewhere as your max sync has been downstream: 13096 kbit/s, upstream: 1131 kbit/s,these are the sort of figures you should be seeing on a 26 attenuation.
I sync at 20379/1031 on 20.5 attn 6.5snr down/7.0 up (my default was 9 but a little tweaking worked wonders)
snr will fluctuate slightly throughout the day.
no not heard of it. dont really know what the SNR margin should be though.lol. should it be higher than 6.5?
There is no hard and fast number which it should be, because every line is different - but raising the SNR margin will often resolve disconnection issues.
i cant change my snr margin anyway. ive got the 2.2 firmware on my router and you can only adjust it if youve got 2.1 or lower..
Ah unlucky. You could always flash to a lower firmware revision of course (at your own risk :p)
At last, I managed to get the line stats from my Belkin router! The URL is http://192.168.2.1/adsl_status.stm
These are the stats:
Status: Configured / Current
Line status: --- / SHOWTIME
Link Type: --- / Fast Path
Data Rate
Up: 947 Kbps
Down: 5419 Kbps
Operation Data: Up / Down
Noise Margin: 5 dB / 7 dB
Attenuation 0 dB / --- dB
Hi again! Since my last post I've changed my router from a Belkin F5D7632 to a Netgear DG834GT, and it's certainly much better! There have been no disconnections or slow browsing, and I've only rebooted because my laptop stopped connecting to the wireless network. The reboot sorted it and now all 3 of my computers, an iPod Touch and a Wii are able to connect to the network. Phew!
The line stats from the Netgear are:
Connection speed: 5943 down / 987 up
Attenuation: 44.0 dB down / 27.5 dB up
Noise margin: 5.9 dB down / 6.5 dB up
I'm not sure what range the attenuation and noise margins should be in, but I'm certainly happy with things as they are now, so hope everyone else who's had problems can get them sorted too.
@Dae:
Thanks for your help regarding the router, it was a bargain and seems to be working fine so far!
Mal :D
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